Evinrude E-NATION, for those dedicated to water, power, fishing and fun
Reply
Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

This one has me stumped. Would appreciate any ideas.

I had a new Crank Position Sensor put in about 4 months ago and it has been running and starting wonderfully for months. Then the day after taking it out on pretty rough seas hitting it aggressively I go to start it and I can't get it to start. 

It initially started on first crank, sputtered and died like it often does when cold on first crank. 2nd Crank it tried to start then suddenly gave a strange sound (backfire sound or something I have not heard before). Then I got no more firing at all. 

I checked all fuses in the power distrubution panel of the engine and they look good.

I put a timing light on #1 and cranked - but get no flash at all. 

I hooked up laptop diagnostics and ran all the static tests fine. ECU is working. I can hear the sparks clicking away at lower voltage static test. But dynamic monitoring during cranking shows zero RPM. This problem I used to have before that CPS was replaced 4-5 months ago. 

I removed 2 sparkplugs to reduce compression load and pulled fuse #5 to completely shut down the ignition coils to see if there was perhaps RF interference messing up the CPS sensor signal (crank position as well as RPM. But still see no cranking RPM when its spinning plenty fast (over 200 RPM by visuals and sound). I am told that unless you get at least 200 RPM the ECU will not even try to fire the plugs. So this is the crux of the problem  - no rotation detection.

I checked all the wires in the harness and there's no obvious nicks or open connectors. 

The ECU was sent to DFI for bench testing - and its all checking out OK in a perfect lab test harness.

Anyone have ideas? Could the CPS have been knocked loose or somehow busted by strong seas? I can look up under the flywheel and see it. It looks in good shape and seems to have a decent air gap between it and flywheel.

Are there any other inline fuses or kill switches etc. that could prevent seeing motor rotation during cranking?




Admiral
Posts: 6,923
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

 

 

A CPS signal is needed to be "seen" by the EMM to show cranking rpm and to initiate  the starting sequences.  Your description suggests that the EMM is not operational or the CPS is faulty or the connections between them. Check your cranking voltages as anything below about 9.6 V will turn off the EMM.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

I just had the ECU/EMM checked out in the lab by DFI as OK. CPS should be fine since its new as of about 4 months ago and reinstalled to nominal air-gap between sensor and flywheel. I reseated all the connectors from the CPS to the wiring harness and retightened the ECU electrical plugs. Cranking Voltage was OK when I first started cranking while monitoring with laptop diagnostics. Connection stayed up to laptap the whole time as I was cranking so I know the voltage did not drop below reboot voltage or I would have lost diagnostics monitor connection. After I cranked it a few times I did notice voltage start to drop below 10 V so I stopped cranking and put batteries back on charger for 24 hrs of slow charge. 

Is there anything else in the circuit btween the CPS and the ECU/EMM wiring input that could kill the signal? Like a fuseable link or a kill switch? DFI suggested I pull fuse #5 to shutdown the ignition coils and sparks just in case they were leaking stray voltage and creating a radio interference signal that was making the sensor input noisy to at least see if I got a clean RPM signal while cranking. I tried that but it did not give me any RPM reading even though it was cranking quite strongly.

The CPS sensor seems to be just about fail proof. Seems to be solid state with nothing but a magnet or coil pickup that detects flywheel metalic vane pulse interruptions.  Don't know if its voltage or current sensing. Is there an active voltage going to the CPS that I can check with a DVM to see if something is not connected there or an ohm test? I seem to have misplaced by manual.

Admiral
Posts: 6,923
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

 

 

It sounds like you are at the point where you should troubleshoot step by step using the service manual or find an experienced FICHT tech. You have done the obvious procedures but now it will take in-depth troubleshooting skills.  In certain cases, substituting known good parts is a quick and dirty way to find out what is wrong.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Highlighted
Skipper
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-13-2018

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

Did you ever find out what was wrong? This is the way mine is acting now!
Skipper
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-13-2018

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

 
Admiral
Posts: 6,923
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

The guy has not visited here for over 2 years,

 

What is your engine model number and how can we help?

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Skipper
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-13-2018

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

1999 Evinrude Ficht model # E200FPLEEN . Same problem as the gentleman above.
Admiral
Posts: 6,923
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

That is a one of a kind engine and ignition system. It was the first 90° V-6 FICHT and the next year the motor was redesigned and the electrical redesigned and the EMM introduced.

 

To troubleshoot the motor yourself, you will need the factory service manual and the Evinrude diagnostic software. It may be less expensive and quicker to have a trained tech check it out for you. Unless it is an intermittent connection somewhere or a wiring harness problem, troubleshooting a no-spark situation is fairly quick with the knowledge and correct tools.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Skipper
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-13-2018

Re: Evinrude 225 HP FICHT 1999 - No Ignition during cranking

Just spent money for a trained tec. He said it was the ECM . I called DFI to get it rebuilt but they (DFI) said it was not the ECM because there was no RPM reading.
I ordered a CPS when it gets here I will try that. For now just trying to get as much information as possible