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Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

Have a hard starting problem on my model E225FPXEES 225 HP Evinrude FIGHT 1999.

Have new batteries that are a bit weakened after sitting in the mechanic's yard for 1 month waiting to have new water pump replaed as part of routine PM. With heavy rains the bilge probably ran a lot the whole time. But battery dealer says Bats check out OK.


Laptop STATIC diagnostics show that sparks and injectors are all firing and wired to correct cllinders - pulled plug leads to leave a spark gap and could hear every plug firing. Pressure test of fuel pump is good at 30 PSI during ignition switch on (then drops out after 15 secs or so).

When I go to crank the engine the laptop diagnostics show 0 RPM during hard cranking. I get no timing light to fire either. If I persist and use deep cycle utility battery to assist in the start it spins a little faster and I hear an occasioanl fire pop but only when the timing light starts flashing again. It normaly does not flash under crank. ECU stays up and connected to laptop during crankkiing so I know ECU is not losing power due to voltage  falloff.

Removed all plugs to take engine compression load off starter. I get a good RPM signal at the laptop doing this - over 330 RPM .

I put one bank of sparks and put a timing light on and I get timing light flashing during cranks and it wants to start.

I put the other bank of sparks in and I am back no no firing during crankking, no RPM measued by the monitor Software and only an occasional engine pop.

It sounds like the Crank Position Sensor is very very sensitive to spining RPM and the ECU needs a very finicky minimul RPM to know engine is trying to be started (derived from RPM rather than key position derived apparently). I must be just under the magic 200 RPM rotational speed to get the ECU to actually start firing plugs diuring cranking (What a crap design to be on the water with!).

Visual inspection of CPS seems to show that is way too far an air gap. No feeler gauges handy to confirm but it seems way larger than the manual's spec of ,060" +/- .020". Is this gap a misprint? It looks over 1/4" to 3/8" gap to me.

Other factors - underside of flywheel has significant surface rust. Is the sensor pulsing off the flywheel vanes on the underside or is there an embedded magnet in the flywheel it's indexing on for pulses? It seems that speed of rotation is critical to get sensor to pick up a clean signal. I am told that the laptop monitor software will not even register an RPM over 0 until it is spinning fast and also that it takes time for the communications link to actually start reading it and updating the diagnostics software. I only saw RPMs when it was half loaded with sparks out or all out.

Also, how do you actually adjust the air gap on the Crank Pos Sensor? Is it shims? All I can see under there is the bolt holding it to the engine. Can it be removed and/or adjusted without pulling the flywheel?

Should I try to clean up the rust on the underside of the flywheel to help inprove the sensor signnal?

Help - want to get this running again.

Admiral
Posts: 8,400
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

There are shims listed in the parts book to adjust the CPS gap. Cleaning the rust off the flywheel is a good idea and be sure that the battery is 88CCA or 1000MCA and the cables and starter motor in good shape. The motor has to attain 300-350 rpm to generate enough power to start the engine and maintain at least 10 volts while craniking

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

Can you tell me if its possible to replace or adjust the CPS without removing the flywheel?

Admiral
Posts: 8,400
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

 

 

I have not worked on a 1999 model for quite a while but I'm sure the flywheel has to be removed to add shims to the CPS

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

OK thanks for the help. At this point I am resigned to the fact I need to pull the flywheel and if I do that I might as well get a new sensor. Think I will have my mechanic do that since I don't have a puller and I don't have the tool to hold the flywheel from turning when I back off that huge crank shaft top nut. I want that flywheel wire brushed, Ospho'd  and repainted.

For future reference. Do you know if its practical to use a piston stop tool (which I have) to lock the flywheel from turning if I did try to go in there myself and back off the flywheel main nut? I know there are high torque forces on that nut and I am concerned that a piston stop might not be enough surface diameter to prevent punching a hole through the piston crown if its really torqued down hard. I am tempted to go rent a puller....

Admiral
Posts: 8,400
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

You do not use a piston tool when removing the flywheel. It takes a flywheel holiding tool otherwise it would be easy to damage the piston or connecting rod while trying to loosen or tighten the flywheel nut.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

[ Edited ]

OK I have the boat back from my mechanic. Replaced the CPS sensor, cleaned up the flywheel surface rust and repainted. He also noticed that 4 of the 6 flywheel magnets used as part of alternator in the ignition, coils and charging circuit were loose. So those were reglued.

Engine cranked right up on first flywheel rotation and started like it was brand new. woohoo.

Then when I got it to my dock to do some more confidence testing by killing and restarting I could not get the starter to spin up. Weirdest dern thing ever. But this new problem sounds like the starter or bendix since I cah hear the solenoid clicking when I turn the ignition key to crank. Wondering if the starter pinion gears were not lubed and it stuck in the up/engaged position the whole trip back to my dock from ramp and burned up the starter? Will check in tomorrow.

Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

[ Edited ]

Now I am curious about those loose flywheel magnets. I am told its not all that uncommon for them to work loose with age. It made me think though about the ECU static disgnostics.

Anyone know if the Evinrude static ECU tests used to fire the sparks are ussing full voltage or is it just a lower voltage start--assist circuit light-weight test to see that there's a good circuit to each sparkplug? I don't see how they can get the high voltage out of the battery in the static mode of testing without that spinning flywheel alternator giving the 40 V AC fed to the coils. Does the stastic test do a DC to AC conversion to 40 V and feed that into the sparks or is it just chopping 12 V off and on (square wave AC using a simple on/off switch/relay) to feed the spark coils at less than half the base alternator voltage used in actual dynamic motion?

I want to know if I can rely on the static tests to tell me that the full circuit is good or if its just a basic test to make sure the plugs are wired to the right coils and firing order.

Admiral
Posts: 8,400
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

 

 

If your starter drive remained engaged with the flywheel with the engine running, there would be a noticeable whine and the starter armature would be damaged from the commutator wires coming loose.

 

When static testing for spark, it is the start assist circuit that "bumps up" the voltage to test fire the coils.

 

The static test shows that the circuits are complete, the components operational, and you can tell if the correct coil is firing.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Captain
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎06-03-2015

Re: Evinrude 225 FICHT 1999 Won't Start - No Ignition. CPS not putting out.

[ Edited ]

Good info. Thanks Bill.