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Skipper
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎03-01-2012

Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

Hello,

 

My 1999 Ficht E150FPLEEO  won't start.

 

I had taken her out on one trip this Spring, and idled for about 150 yards when she simply "quit". It then would "Crank" and fire, but immediately die.

 

we did all the standard checks, fuel pressure, vapor seperator/fuel pump, lift pump, and even sent the EMM to DFI, and was told it tested fine.

 

Anyway we eventually checked the voltage in the rectifier/regulator, and "bingo"!! we swapped it with one of another motor and she ran like a top in the shop.

 

I took her out on the river, she started fine, idled fine, let her warm up, and run approx 2 miles at different RPM's, and she ran excellent! 

 

After a good run I stopped, shut her off, and fished for awhile then when I went to start her there was "NOTHING"

 

I assumed it was the neutral safety switch, but that wasn't it, checked the maine fuse, still had tilt/trim, but nothing when the key was turned.

 

We diconnected the boat harness, and plugged in a keyed shop ignition, and still "nothin"

 

We then tested the ECU with one off a differen't model # ficht 150 that we knew was good for starting purposes, and still the same thing....."nothing" no fuel pump and she won't crank.

 

We then tested the PDP and even swapped it with a different one, checked fuses, relays and ........"nothing"

 

There is power to the maine power relay, and you can get it to "crank" by jumping it with a test light that is grounded,

 

We can make the fuel pump run as well by "jumping" it in the PDP.

 

There is another RELAY that is the "START DELAY" and the earlier 1999 models don't even have this RELAY.??

 

My Evinrude mechanic who was certified on the Ficht Techology is totally baffled, as he only has the wiring diagrams for the 1999 150 EE's but this one, the 150 EEO is basically the same, but different when it comes to the wiring. He mentioned something about the BROWN wire and wonders where it goes within the harness??

 

We have noidea what to do next? 

Any suggestions would definitly be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Never let them steal your dreams.
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Admiral
Posts: 9,505
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

[ Edited ]

 

 

The EEO model was a redesign when the former OMC was struggling to get the 60° V-6 FICHTS running more reliably. Your motor is a mix of earlier FICHT technology and some of the model year 2000 FICHT Ram technology. Your model has an exhaust backpressure tube which was not widely used until the 2000 Ram models so it needed the delay relay to sense the barometric pressure before cranking the enigne over and building up exhaust pressure.

 

You may refer to a 2000 150 wiring diagram to trace the circuitry for the relay.  If I remember correctly the relay has 2 ground wires, each with a diode for isolation. The initial grounding to activate the relay is through the tachometer circuit and ECU until the motor fires up. The other ground goes through the electric fuel pump wiring. You may have an open diode problem or something inside the wiring harness not completing the grounding circuit for the relay.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


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Skipper
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎03-01-2012

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

Thank you for such a quick response Bill.

 

I am looking forward to goin to the Shop in the AM with this info you have givin me. 

 

This Delay Relay you speak of, can this be eliminated or is it necessary? at this point I'm saying to my mechanic " let's do whatever it takes to get her to run", and he's all for that, but doesn't want to "fry" anything in the process. That's why he said we need the EEO wiring diagram.

 

I am interested in looking at thise "diodes" again. he did split the Harness and we looked at them, and I belive he tested them, but can't recall.

 

I am saying to him " if we have power at the maine relay, and can make it "crank", and jump the fuel pump in the PDP and make the pump run, there has to be a way to tie this togeather and make this motor run. And he is trying his best to follow the proper 'factory" procedure to repair, but at this point I would be happy with any solution that will make it go.

Never let them steal your dreams.
Highlighted
Admiral
Posts: 9,505
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

[ Edited ]

The fuel pump is activated by the EMM switching the pump  relay ground on and off. That also is part of the delay relay ground  so that may point to a wiring problem in the harness since you have swapped ECU and PDP already.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


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Skipper
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎03-01-2012

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

Hello Bill,

 

Well we jumped the fuel pump and the maine power relay to get them to run, and to crank, but there is no fire.

 

The first thing my mechnic thought was ECU again, but it was just at DFI and tested A-1 and we tried a different one with the same result.

 

Today, after bringing the boat from the shop and was goin to send the ECU back to Alabama, another mechanic showed up here at the cottage to borrow some tools to fix a Merc down at the dock as he didn't bring the ones he needed.

 

He ask me about my Ficht dilemma, and i explained the whole thing in fine detail. I told him we swapped the ECU with a test unit and the same result which got him thinking.

 

He ask does it crank over?, does fuel pump run? etc. and I said after my run on the river after replacing the Regulator/Rectifier she has "nothing" when the key is turned,  and I told him about everything we did, like the neutral safety switch, and the stardard procedures we performed as well as voltage.

 

He immediately said it's not the ECU cause it should turn over. It seems the ECU isn't getting power, it's likely in the harness somewhere, he also mentioned a ground issue outside of the ECU.

 

Anyway, he want's to look at it before I send the ECU away once again, and that kinda leeds me to believe as it does him that it is a wiring issue, and not a computer issue.

 

I'll update on the result of his diagnosis.

Never let them steal your dreams.
Highlighted
Admiral
Posts: 9,505
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

 

 

Let's revisit the relays for a moment. 

 

Are you providing a ground to the delay relay (5 terminal) to get it to crank over or are you talking about the jumping the main relay (4 terminal)? 

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


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Skipper
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎03-01-2012

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO


@BluewaterBill wrote:

 

 

Let's revisit the relays for a moment. 

 

Are you providing a ground to the delay relay (5 terminal) to get it to crank over or are you talking about the jumping the main relay (4 terminal)? 


I think he was jumping the Delay Relay actually, but I could be wrong. The fuel pump was jumped in the PDP.

Never let them steal your dreams.
Highlighted
Admiral
Posts: 9,505
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

Don't forget that one of the delay relay ground circuits ties into the fuel pump relay actuator coil ground - brown wire and a diode- and the ground circuit is activated by the ECU.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.


Highlighted
Skipper
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎03-01-2012

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

Hey Bill,

 

Well I took it to another mecanic, and he traced the wires in the harness, and such as well as changing a wire connection that was wrong, put the original RECTIFIER/REGULATOR BACK, and "bang" she fired up like she didn't miss a beat!! 

 

We lt her run for awhile, and tried different rpm's etc, and she was like a new motor.

 

But ,,,,,,, now she is doing the original Turn over, FIRE, THEN DIE, all over again......?????

 

We thought we cured that by changing regulator/rectifier, but it's doing the same thing.

 

The ECU is fine I believe, but what is keeping this girl from running. It wants to but something is shutting her off?

 

What about that exhaust tude thing-e that checks the barametric pressure? could something like that be shutting her down?

 

Never let them steal your dreams.
Highlighted
Admiral
Posts: 9,505
Registered: ‎07-14-2011

Re: Trying to find a Ficht Gremlin, 1999 E150FPLEEO

What wire was connected wrong?

 

The exhaust sensor tube only fine tunes the fuel mixture but it and the delay relay can affect starting of the motor.

 

If it runs and dies, monitor the system voltage and injector firing. Stator and regulator/rectifier affect that part of the circuit.

 

 

 


"There is never just one thing wrong with a boat";
                    -- Travis McGee, main character in a book series by John D. McDonald 


 



***************

The factory recommends that a properly trained technician service your Johnson or Evinrude outboard motor. Should you elect to perform repairs yourself, use caution, common sense, and observe safety procedures in the vicinity of flammable liquids, around moving parts, near high-temperature components, and working with electrical or ignition systems.

The information offered here is only general in nature and should not be construed as complete factory approved procedures, techniques, or specifications. Always use the proper service manual for your motor, up-to-date service literature, the correct tools, and have an understanding of how to proceed with troubleshooting and repair methods. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with a procedure, a situation, or a technique, enlist the services of a factory trained technician.